So 600mg of tren e won't be too much to start out with it being my first time using it? And I didn't mean to say the orals didn't work. They did what they were supposed to I just had really bad headaches after about 2 weeks and couldn't get myself to eat as much as I should have been without feeling sick. I still have some tbol and dbol so I don't know maybe I'll try one more time. My blood pressure was really high around the time I was taking it and the meds I was taking didn't really do much so maybe it was just high BP.