New B (Help Please)

[Mass1234]

Hi there,

I have previously done a few cycles in the past and have generally just done Deca 500pw,Test E 600pw 10/12 weeks and Dianabol 60mg ed 4 weeks. Followed by PCT Nolvadex, Clomid 4 weeks.

Height 6ft6,
Weight 112kg,
Age 28
High metabolism

Diet

Eggs, chicken, pasta, rice, natural yogurt, b toast, red meats, veg, fruit, nuts, shakes x2, etc... normally 4500kcals per day.

Currently on PCT, planning next cycle looking for as much information/support as possible idea's please.

Thanks

[Powertard]

Christ 4500 kcal a day
That's a lot lol

[Mass1234]

I've always had to eat loads to put/keep weight on and I do a physical job so that doesn't help lol

[big482]

At your size plus a high metabolism you are probably maintaining at 4500 calories. You are a big guy period. I would bump up your calories to 6,000 if you can and replace those shakes if you can with real food. Add some oatmeal and sweet potatoes to the mix also. I am close to the same weight as you right now but am closer to 6 feet . My BF right now is hanging around 10%. You are doing a good job with the 4,500 calories. Most people eat like a bird and wonder why they don't make gains even with gear . My suggestion to you would be to run some Anadrol/tren e/Test400. If you keep your diet clean and low sodium plus run your AI at the right amount the drol will not bloat you or put on a massive amount of water . But it will add some good amount of muscle. You don't have to run a huge amount either. 50mg drol for 4 weeks. Depending how high you run your testosterone determines really how much tren you need in my opinion. If you use 800mg of test 400 (1ml Monday and Thursday) you can do fine with 200-300mg of tren e. Either .5ml or .75ml with your 1ml of test 400. And run your AI eod while on the Anadrol. When you drop the drol run the AI M,W,F. Run the Tren 8 weeks and Test 400 9 weeks (because of deconate in 400) . PCT according. You don't really need these mega watt doses because you actually eat. Guys run double the doses l suggest and eat 2,500 calories (800 consisting of shakes) and wonder why they can't put on any size .

Keep eating and training. I would like to see a before and after pic of that cycle and 6,000 calories a day . And you are right about when you work a physical job you need even higher calories to gain or hold weight period. Good luck and stay healthy

[Powertard]

You sure 6000 isn't too high? I mean that is A LOT of energy...A huge amount

Why not try 5000 see where that goes then go up by 200 per week testing bf etc?

6000....man I can't see how that is an appropriate amount of intake it seems far excessive for all but an Olympic athlete

[zbrown96]

Honestly...at that weight 4500 seems like a fairly small amount of food. I eat about 4000 to maintain a lean 175lbs (prob 8%) on a 5'10 frame. To break 185lbs i have to be eating at least 5500 and on some pretty serious doses. I def think he should be eating more if he wants to grow

[Powertard]

Wat

This is mental

I mean when I was on a lot of gear 100 kg at 10% at 170 cm 4 iu hgh 100 mg ED tren 900 eq 300 test I was training 4x a wk hard and also cardio ED
Maintaining on 3200-3500

I cannot imagine a 4500 maintain or 5500 to grow that is unbelievable calories

I couldn't manage that clean every day I'd have to resort to eating entire boxes of cereal per day and stuff lol

[big482]

Because he works a physical job he is burning calories up the ass. He is also 245+ pounds with a fast metabolism . Plus if he is trying to gain mass you need to nit be catabolic ever. The last contest l did l was eating 12 oz of flounder 6 times a day along with 200 grams of protein from egg whites, a a jar of almond butter and 300 grams of carbs from only sweet potatoes. And was having trouble holding my weight at 220 . I was around 6% at that time . I ended up at 208 3.9% bf and didn't change to much from that diet.
In his situation he needs food period . That is just my opinion.

[Mass1234]

Thanks for the feed back lads I really appreciate it!

Eating more makes a lot of sense as it is solid food I'll look at aiming for 6000kcals per day, it is hard because my breaks are different every day at work. I'll definitely look at slamming some more Egg Whites, Sweet Potato and Oatmeal in my diet.

Could you explain what you mean by
"When you drop the drol run the AI M,W,F
12 oz of flounder,
don't understand it.

The Products I have are:

Test E 300
Deca 300
Anapolon
Nolvadex
Clomid

What would u recommended amounts with these products, I'll look into taking Anadrol/tren e/Test400 on my next course.

Many thanks

[Powertard]

That's crazy, Big

Awesome stats.

Honestly insane

Well you are the men to give advice....I'm not gonna argue with someone 208 on stage at under 4% ever

Mass, just make some peanut butter sandwiches from gluten free bread or something just cram a few whenever you can I dunno

Maybe just bring calorie dense stuff like biscuits or some pizza? Not recomnending dirty food but seriously unless you've got all day to eat you'll find 6000 of clean food horribly hard to manage.

I vote adding in calorie dense stuff... Just see if you can sneak a toilet break or something and have something dense in calories...

[zbrown96]

I agree with powertard there. Maybe get about 1000-1500kcals from calorie dense food and then get the rest from whole foods. With your fast metabolism you won't really struggle too much with unwanted fat gain

[Powertard]

No wonder why so many bbers wind up blobs when they stop
I guess once eating habits like this are established you'll never really eat or view food the way the average person views it

[Powertard]

Ai is aromatase inhibitor
Looks like you don't have one
Try and get aromasin its the best AI there is :)

12 oz flounder I assume is 12 oz flounder steak

[Powertard]

https://groceries.asda.com/product/party-cakes/asda-triple-layer-milk-chocolate-cake/910000255164

Pros:
1/28 th of it is 270 kcal
£10 the entire thing.
Horrible for you....but fun and cheap dense calories.
Make everyone at work mad jealous that you get to eat a huge chunk of cake every day and not be fat

cons:
Macros are pretty crap
Lots of salt too
Diabetes

[big482]

12 oz of flounder fish per meal . I don't think that is what you need though it is good for prep but not for bulking .

Me personally l will run test e lower than Decca and let Decca do the work but l don't have a issue with Decca dick either. So try this

The Friday before you start your cycle load 600mg Test e and 900mg Decca. Then Monday and Thursday take .5ml of test e and .75ml of Decca. 50mg of drol for 2-3 weeks unless it kills your appetite. Then it is doing more harm than good. Or if it makes you real lethargic. Now if you experience"Decca dick" up your test e to .75ml Monday and Thursday. Run your test e 10 days longer than Decca. Me personally since you did a decent frontload l would only run your Decca 8 weeks because gains will start at week 2 and go through week 9 for sure. When you run your AI run it eod when you take the Anadrol . After you stop M,W,F should work but treat as needed. Don't kill all your estrogen but don't run around with moon face either or a big water knot in the back of your head. In the case you are real sensitive to the Decca you will have to up the test e to 1ml if you have libido issues.

I am sure people will argue with what l said . If you want l can break it down even farther why l think this is the best way to run it . Plus run your pct a little longer because Decca is the ultimate shutdown compound. Hcg and some of MTS PCt pills will work well. You can p.m. If you want anymore info .

Remember none of this works with out a good diet and a good solid workout plan . Good luck and train hard and remember big guys eat even when they are not hungry . Every 2.5-3 hours

[big482]

And Powertard is right peanut butter will help out. If you have to drink a shake instead of eat a meal carry a jar of peanut butter with you and eat 2 table spoons with your shake

[Mass1234]

How much aromasin do you take and how often?

[Mass1234]

How would you run your PCT and Hcg and how much and often would you take Aromasin? Please break it down further for me I keen to develop my knowledge of products and people's different ways of using them. For me I have only taken Deca,Test and dB followed by a pct that ws recommended by my supply.

Thanks

[Mass1234]

If Deca Dick does occur what would be the best thing to do?

[big482]

If using aromasin start at 12.5mg ED one week before frontload. Now the first 3-4 weeks you are introducing a good amount of AAS to your system so your estrogen level is going to increase a great deal . Because of Aromasin half life start a week ahead of FRONTLOAD to be safe. You may have to increase your aromasin during the first 4 weeks. My orginal AI protocol of EOD or M,W,F is for letro or Arimidex at .5mg .

[big482]

Check your p.m. I sent you something you should take into consideration when selecting A.I.

[big482]

Now as far as PCT goes l am giving you info from how l had my buddy do his after test/Decca cycle and he says he feels great . I don't run PCT because my testosterone natural testosterone production was knocked out from my spinal cord injury and TBI from wounds l suffered in Iraq. So l run 100mg of Test cyp Mondays and Thursday all year round when not using other compounds.

So this is how l had him do it . Now this is with MTS HCG and their PCT pills so l can't vouch for anyone else stuff. PCT is your most important part of your cycle so don't buy cheap HCG or research AI's or SERMS.

Ok with that being said. I am going to put a small change to original cycle. Stop test e and Decca at the same time. Get one bottle of test propionate. Run it at 75mg eod for 14 days and while running the propionate take 25-50mg of winstrol. Run the winstrol 7 days longer than the propionate. ( don't worry about the "dry joint myth" it is as much a myth as Decca and EQ are similar) This will help ramp down the total androgen level in your system and it will make a difference in recovery. after last test propionate injection take 2,000 iu of hcg and 1 MTS pct pill. Take 2,000 iu hcg 7 days later and increase PCT pill to 2 a day. 7 days later take 2,000 iu hcg and take 1.5 pct pill. 7 days later 1 pct pill for 7 days . Then take 1/2 nolvadex pill for 10 days .

This worked great for my friend. He said he feels better than ever and its been 4 weeks since he finished PCT.

Now everybody is different so this is just a suggestion not the rule. I am not like a lot of people who think they know every damn thing and everything is set in stone and that's that. If you get advice you think is better by all means try it out

His cycle was 375mg test e
600mg Decca
2 weeks dbol 30mg

24lbs gained . 18lbs kept 2 months after cycle and very little decrease in strength.

Decca dick can be combatted by raising test e like l said before. Raising it .25ml each injection till desired effect. There is no reason to jump to 600mg-750mg test e if you don't need to. Waste of gear during cycle and in the future ( yes it effects future cycles) . Plus just more sides to deal with.

As always DIET and TRAINING FIRST GEAR SECOND. BLOOD Work at the beginning, middle and after PCt is finished.

[Mass1234]

Very interesting how easy is it to get blood work and what's the cost?

[Powertard]

If you're in the UK there is medichecks

[Mass1234]

What's the crack how does it work, what sort of test is it called and what are the main things to look out for and I am in the UK.

What's best to take?
Aromasin
Arimidex
Letrozone
Epistane

[Powertard]

Hormone panel
Lft
Metabolic panel

[Powertard]

On the topic of force feedibg ...

I DO NOT recommend it
You should eat when physically hungry imo

This is how I developed my ED, ignoring my body's cues and I messed myself up due to it

Poor move

Your body will end up not being able to tell when it is hungry or full

Body is surprisingly good at regulating energy balance.

It isn't good

[Mass1234]

Their's loads could you have a look and let know which one please:

https://www.medichecks.com/find-a-test/tests/Hormones_13/

[Powertard]

Btw steer clear of the finger prick tests
Ineffective....I ordered one and after about an hr of mutilating my finger tip with the stupid scewer thing and squeezing my finger it ended up heamolyzing and turning to jelly so they couldn't test it.

It sucked.

Go and make sure to get a phleb done otherwise you are time wasting

[big482]

Lol at finger prick story

[Powertard]

It really frickin' hurt! Lmao

[Powertard]

Honestly thought...just made a 6000 kcal diet plan

I simply couldn't manage that on a daily basis. Even subbing in junk dense stuff like a jar of nutella.

I'd feel...horrible. last yr on eq I could have done it but normally no way. Even if I had all day to eat I could not come close to 6000 of clean whole foods. I'd be distended bloated lethargic and probably constipated...don't even know if the body can process such a volume of food if it's oats rice chicken without GI issues.

I admire you for putting yourself through it.

Pretty tough going honestly.

[Mass1234]

Could you have a look at this link and let know which one please is best?

https://www.medichecks.com/find-a-te...s/Hormones_13/

What's best to take?
Aromasin
Arimidex
Letrozone
Epistane
..??

[Mass1234]

Thinking of taking some HCG about 5 weeks into my course to help bollocks do you think it's worth doing and how much and for how long?