My take on the road to enhanced training

[ironmaster]

Hi guys,

As you know from my last thread pictures to prove. I want to shear what I feel is the best way to enhance your physic

1. Never take gear under the age of 20 and make sure to have at least 2 years of solid training under your belt 5 would be better

2. Everyone wants to be a super star but reality is where it is at and life plays apart in all of this so I say the best way to start cycling is 6 on 6-8 off do this for a couple of years and see how you go. This is what I was told and did. d bol and deca is best. Say 200-400mg per week and dbol 20mg ed do not need pct as the cycle is short and wont shut you down as hard and you can rebound within 6-8 weeks when your off plus you go back on after a short brake so all good. Have some AI on hand if needed plus every 6 months have a good 12 week break to clean right out when you do that some pct would not hurt to run. Like I said cycle like this for two years and see if you have the right tools to build muscle and look the part. If you can not make progress here then take up another sport and keep training as a health pursuit instead. Also you will see I have listed no test in the cycle. I never did I was young and had enough of my own to get by and rebound off. Plus test is good to use after you have tapped out. I mean I went from 70kg to 85kg in two years on what I have listed above and it gave me real solid mass I was thick as hell but not big although very dense. Then when I started to cycle in test it pushed me up to 100kg but because of the base I had it looked much more impressive then the guys around me that just went for the easy option did test from day one and put it all on over night although they just looked like someone had filled them with air and when they would come off it all went away. I took my time and when I made the jump to test after a two year base on deca I left those guys for dead. Do not get me wrong I was tempped to jump the gun but I though of it as easy come easy go and that is exactly what happened to those other guys around me.

3. When ready for test then start low build up from there and also run 10 - 16 week cycle and that is it. Now I always did pct and would come off for about 10 weeks and do it all again just test only the most I every got up to was 750mg per week and if I was planning a show to which I at lest did one a year I would add d bol deca stan shit like that to help harden my mass as I dieted down. That was it!

4. Now that being said and you started enhanced training in your 30's then test is best because you are already starting to decline so in this case yes test is best.

5. Now all of the above is what you need to see if you got what it takes to build a great body.

6. Blast and cruise I would only do this if you feel the need to and can not recover with normal pct take me 41years old now so do you think it maybe a good option now after 20years of cycling? I think you know the answer. And yes once i am all done hrt is an option or fuck it i may just not give a fuck i mean who wants to be a horny 60 year old fucking young birds i will just be happy to grow old with my wife and watch my grand children grow up.

Please feel free to comment.

If this post takes off I will post some of my cycles i did over the years to show you how it evolved. I will also post what i feel is a good way to run a cycle that is for the more seasoned trainer based on what i know now and have learned over the years.

ironmaster

[grotereber]

Interesting read. Certainly a different philosophy than what is mostly advocated these days! And you obviously got great results off those dosages.

I really agree with the 'filled with air' comment - guys who blow up super quick on huge dosages just don't seem to have the same muscle 'quality' as guys who build it over a longer period of time and by training heavier - the first that jumps to mind is Bostin Loyd, vs any powerlifter his size who looks way grainier and harder at the same height and weight. Would love to know the science behind that if there is any.

[ironmaster]

To get back to the issue of guys you inflate right up without first building a base I will tell you a little story.

I was about 22 years old been training now 5 years and a guy comes into the guy from the local navy base asked me about training and wanted to know about gear. He said I looked good and must know something!

I explained my thoughts on it much like what I have said in my opening post. He comes back about a week later and said I was wrong and he new the real way to do it. He went to the doc and got his scripts

This is what he said he was doing

750mg of sus250 per week
750mg of test e per week
100mg of Anap ED

My cycles was something like the below and I was into my second year of cycling

6 week cycle of
Tribolon 75mg 4ml per week
20mg d bol ed

Ok I will admit the guy on his cycle got big really big surpassed me in about 3 months he went from 98kg to 120kg but he just looked liked he was full of air and not very strong. but because he was now a walking unit he must be doing something right.

Well about 12 months later I came second in a novice show to which he did that same show and he did not even make top 5 he was up set because he was huge no doubt but no quality to his end product. And I saw him about 5 years after that and he was a stick and by then I had stated to use test in cycles and at 168cm top out at 102kg 13% bf so mow I was a beast. He just said I should have take your advice mate. I and said all good things come to those who wait.

So all you young guys just take your time this sport requires it if you want to build something you can sustain. I mean even now if I come off totally and keep training I still look half descent due to the fact I built a base all those years ago.

[grotereber]

My favourite part of that post is taking sustanon and test e when they are essentially the same thing. Also 1.5g of test + anadrol, he must have been bloof city! lol. Interesting stuff, thanks.

[Diary of a beast]

Great post! I'm very interested in your cycles especially ones during prep/closer to a show

[ironmaster]

My favourite part of that post is taking sustanon and test e when they are essentially the same thing. Also 1.5g of test + anadrol, he must have been bloof city! lol. Interesting stuff, thanks.

well the thing about running sus250 and primo test is that you could only get 3 repeats on each item so you would have 12 ml of sus to fill so if you just wanted to run sus250 @ 1500mg per week that would mean seeing the doc every two weeks for another script so that was the logic get a script for two types of test and then you only have to see the doc once a month to get it filled again.

[grotereber]

well the thing about running sus250 and primo test is that you could only get 3 repeats on each item so you would have 12 ml of sus to fill so if you just wanted to run sus250 @ 1500mg per week that would mean seeing the doc every two weeks for another script so that was the logic get a script for two types of test and then you only have to see the doc once a month to get it filled again.

ah that makes sense then, didn't consider that it was prescription. those must have been the days, very difficult to get a script now.

[ironmaster]

I always remembered Lee priest tell me that his first cycle was deca and later on once he turned pro he started to add test to his cycles.

In 2008 I hired him to do a seminar and I got a chance to spend two days traviling down south with him. He said keep it real just train and eat clean food have some junk when you feel like it if off season and he was not that heavy on gear. he said he would take any combination of test deca dbol anapolan stanazol t3 clen but nothing over 1000mg not of each but a combo eg 500mg test 400mg deca 50mg stan eod along with some clen and I asked him about PCT and he said he has never done it. He alsways tells the same story and I believe him.

[BIGDADDY]

Ironmaster, what's your thoughts on TALL guys with bigger frames. Surely the dosages you are providing is proportionally relevant for a smaller sized guy?

Surely a guy who is 198cm tall and weighs 300lbs will need a lot more than

750mg of sus250 per week
750mg of test e per week
100mg of Anap ED

My experience has shown that every tall guy I know eats more and takes more drugs than a well built short guy. Maybe the short guy looks bigger or better relatively, but the tall guy makes half as much gains unless he's on a hell of a lot of hgh, insulin and gear. Plus much more food.

[grotereber]

infobrokerz has said something like, the hormones act on lean tissue - so you could get a dexa scan and then base it off that. obviously taller guys have more lean tissue so it applies like you say.

[ironmaster]

Ironmaster, what's your thoughts on TALL guys with bigger frames. Surely the dosages you are providing is proportionally relevant for a smaller sized guy?

Surely a guy who is 198cm tall and weighs 300lbs will need a lot more than

750mg of sus250 per week
750mg of test e per week
100mg of Anap ED

My experience has shown that every tall guy I know eats more and takes more drugs than a well built short guy. Maybe the short guy looks bigger or better relatively, but the tall guy makes half as much gains unless he's on a hell of a lot of hgh, insulin and gear. Plus much more food.

Could be some truth to that. I mean it will take a shorter guy less time to reach his top end but if you took two guys at different heights and each both gained 5kg using the same doses of course it will look like the shorter guy gained more but the real truth is they both gained 5kg

Like I said this sport is a game of time not how much gear you stick in a needle. The taller guy just needs to be a little more patient.

I hope this makes sense.

[ironmaster]

Ironmaster, what's your thoughts on TALL guys with bigger frames. Surely the dosages you are providing is proportionally relevant for a smaller sized guy?

Surely a guy who is 198cm tall and weighs 300lbs will need a lot more than

750mg of sus250 per week
750mg of test e per week
100mg of Anap ED

My experience has shown that every tall guy I know eats more and takes more drugs than a well built short guy. Maybe the short guy looks bigger or better relatively, but the tall guy makes half as much gains unless he's on a hell of a lot of hgh, insulin and gear. Plus much more food.

Also the little story I told above about the guy take that cycle listed above was a tall dude about 190cm he went from 98kg to a 120kg all within 3 months and he still had a small waist he just looked full of air like a big water bag and he would sweet like a pig just looked un healthy.

Yes high dose are needed the more advanced you get but lower doses in the first couple of years I think will build you a better body in the long run.

IMHO start low and when you get to the stage of needing 1000mg per week to make gains then I believe in blitz cycles to shock more growth.

Even though I have not competed since 2006 I did keep experimenting and this is what I came up with and have advised other guys to do with great results.

Ok like I said you are now a big unit and been doing cycles of 1000mg per week of just test or a combo of test anabolic and orals but over all you do not go over 1000mg per week running it for 10-16 weeks then pct ( I would advise using test only cycles off season and combo cycles if wanting to prep for a show.

Example
Off season
week 1
500mg test
week 2-10
1000mg test
week 11-14
500mg test
week 15-16
250mg test and start PCT with 5000iu hgh E4D to start the nuts up again with 40mg novla
week 17-18
20mg novla
then run 30 days of clomid 50mg ed

then train 4 weeks clean and do it again also do not for get to run an AI through out the cycle too

If doing a comp prep

16 week cycle break it down into 4 week blocks

1-4
750mg long acting test
200mg deca
30mg d bol

5-8
500mg long acting test
400mg deca
t3 25mcg ed

9-12
100mg test prop EOD
50mg tren a EOD
50mg Anapolan ED
t3 50mg ed

13-16
Test suspension 50mg mix with 50mg stan both water based ED
Tren a 50mg ed
or
Mast 100mg with tren a 50mg ed

t3 25mcg ed

That is about it

Although your training and diet would be adjusted to the goal you needed but that is a little more complicated and that is where most guys fail but if you get your training and diet right the above combos would see you right.

after you no longer get resuts from this then blitz cycle work well.

An example would be

Diet down for 3 weeks no and clean out no drugs then run in other words prime your body ready for the blitz

Sus 250 @ 1-2ml per day for 20days

take 30 day break

then run a 6 week cycle at mod doses to solidify the gain example

500mg test per week with 600mg EQ

Then run a pct for 30days with 4 weeks clean or just cruise on 1ml of test a week until your ready to cycle again

then just blitz again

[BIGDADDY]

Quality information here! Thanks.

[ironmaster]

Great post! I'm very interested in your cycles especially ones during prep/closer to a show

Ok
This is one cycle I did way back in 1995 it was one of my last before starting to add test in my cycles.

You must take into account that back then vet gear was used in OZ a lot then if you had no doc will to write you a script. I never found one until 1997.

I used Tribolin 75mg/ml with EQ 50gm/ml

8 week cycle 4ml of each a week

would start @ 78kg and by the end be up a solid 7kg

My first real test cycle was this

week 1 - 5
4ml tribolin 75
week 6-9
testo LA vet drug 100mg/ml cypinate 2.5ml per week

I ran 50mg of anapolan ed from weeks 1-6

now I was a solid 92kg and this is when I started doing mens shows would take me up until 2002 before I challenged for national titles.

But like I said knowing what I know now I would run test a lot longer and make it my base all the way through but I still believe if uner the age of 30 just stick with anabolic's and save the test once you have peaked.

I also remember reading some where that European bb were big on this only take like 600mg deca per week some of the old time guys swore by the old dbol and deca cycle I think flex wheeler did this.

[ironmaster]

I have also kept a collection of all the types of gear over the past 20 years got a lot of empty vet vials. I you guys would like to see it I could up load the pic and show you what was around back 20 years ago. I mean Boldenone @ 50mg/ml imagine running 1000mg of that a week for 15weeks lol

So you can now see why we only would take 4-6ml of it a week for a total of 200-300mg per week because it was a pain in the arse so to speak but that said we still made good gains at those doses. I mean I remember a guy from Germany was on vacation and asked me for some gear I sold him some Dynobol 50 which was a vet drug basically deca and at 4ml per week for a total of 200mg he was very happy with it. One day he pulled the vial out of his gym bag and was going to take a shot right there and then and I had to tell him what I gave him was illegal in Australia and he cant't be doing it the gym we all laugh about it later funny as fuck. I guess back in his home land it was normal to do that.

[Diary of a beast]

Thanks for the Info!