First cycle at 21, Figuring things out.

Hey Guys,

Recently I've been thinking about whether jumping on a test cycle may be beneficial to me. I've told myself however that if it's something I want to do, I'll do it as safely as possible. Please excuse if anything I say comes of as naive. I'll give you as much info as possible, and then I'd love to hear some fine tuning and suggestions if you're happy to help.

Been training for 6 years.
Probably close to 15%BF.
5'9" approx 220lbs

I've started to plateau, regardless of dietary improvements. Just looking for a bit more fullness, nothing way too crazy. Thinking of keeping it simple with Test Enanthate for now, about a 12 week cycle @500-600mg per week. Done some reading on PCT, however I've seen so many different opinions I'm a little unsure how to schedule and what to take for PCT. Looked and the PCT+ on the UK site, taking that into consideration (would love to hear from someone who's used it). Making an effort to up my cardio fitness in prep for heart health... If there's anything I've left out, let me know! Cheers guys.

- A curious starter.

Lean out first. Your first cycle you're gonna see very crazy gains. But get lean before you start - your body wants to stay in a state of homeostasis so if you start fat you'll look fat, you start lean you're gonna look amazing at the end of the cycle with all the muscle added on.

Yep! Definitely have that as a focus prior to starting. I figure I’ve got about a month of hard work before I start anyway. Was just hoping to get more of an opinion and understanding on PCT. Also wouldn’t mind hearing if it’s smartest to start with just Test E, or stack.

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Originally Posted by Renegade77

Yep! Definitely have that as a focus prior to starting. I figure I’ve got about a month of hard work before I start anyway. Was just hoping to get more of an opinion and understanding on PCT. Also wouldn’t mind hearing if it’s smartest to start with just Test E, or stack.

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Everyone says keep it nice and simple with Test only. I could say add Anavar towards the last 6 weeks of the cycle OR grab some Masteron since that would keep oestrogen side effects at bay.
I tried the Tren Mast Test stack on my second cycle and I'll probably never use Mast again since I've lost ridiculous amount of hair whilst on that. I'll give it a shot in future again probably when I'm bald XD

Either way with Anavar/Mast or just Test only you should be pleased with gains.

for PCT I've always just used 1 cap of each Nolvadex (20mg) and Clomid (50mg) every day until the pack ran out (so about 3.5-4 weeks) and that always seems to work for me... but everyone's recovery is different.
Some don't even recover at all.
IMO you could try Med Tech's own PCT blend. I'm avoiding it mainly because of the Provion but other than that it seems very good for value to me.
Just to add. A few years ago at one of the hardcore gyms I visited. The owner recommend that you use the full stack of Clomid, HCG and Nolvadex if you plan on going off for a long time.
However if you could only take one He'd recommend the Clomid.

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Originally Posted by Van

Everyone says keep it nice and simple with Test only. I could say add Anavar towards the last 6 weeks of the cycle OR grab some Masteron since that would keep oestrogen side effects at bay.
I tried the Tren Mast Test stack on my second cycle and I'll probably never use Mast again since I've lost ridiculous amount of hair whilst on that. I'll give it a shot in future again probably when I'm bald XD

Either way with Anavar/Mast or just Test only you should be pleased with gains.

for PCT I've always just used 1 cap of each Nolvadex (20mg) and Clomid (50mg) every day until the pack ran out (so about 3.5-4 weeks) and that always seems to work for me... but everyone's recovery is different.
Some don't even recover at all.
IMO you could try Med Tech's own PCT blend. I'm avoiding it mainly because of the Provion but other than that it seems very good for value to me.
Just to add. A few years ago at one of the hardcore gyms I visited. The owner recommend that you use the full stack of Clomid, HCG and Nolvadex if you plan on going off for a long time.
However if you could only take one He'd recommend the Clomid.

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Great reply man, really appreciate that. I probably won't be cycling too often so it may be worth my considering the Clomid, HCG, Nolvadex mix (but I know everyone says that at the start). Mind if I ask why you're avoiding the Provion? I'm glad you brought up the balding factor in Mast, as it is hereditary in one side of my family. I think I've lucked my way out of that one, but if possible to skip the notorious ones for early onset I will. But I do know that it's just something you have to be prepared for in the Anabolics world.

Hey guys, so I've tried to mock up a cycle & pct that I THINK would be okay going off of the original plan to stick with just Test E for the first cycle (still haven't decided on Van's suggestion for Anavar). Please correct me if needed. I want to do this safely as possible. Also let me know if theres any other suggested PCT to include that's available on the UK store! Thinking I may steer clear of Provion as I'm reading it's one that exaggerates male pattern baldness? Cheers!

Weeks 1-12: Enanthate 300mg per shot (600mg Week), Monday & Friday
Weeks 15-18: Clomid 50/50/50/50mg per day
Weeks 15-18 Tamoxifen 40/40/20/20mg per day

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renegade77

Hey guys, so I've tried to mock up a cycle & pct that I THINK would be okay going off of the original plan to stick with just Test E for the first cycle (still haven't decided on Van's suggestion for Anavar). Please correct me if needed. I want to do this safely as possible. Also let me know if theres any other suggested PCT to include that's available on the UK store! Thinking I may steer clear of Provion as I'm reading it's one that exaggerates male pattern baldness? Cheers!

Weeks 1-12: Enanthate 300mg per shot (600mg Week), Monday & Friday
Weeks 15-18: Clomid 50/50/50/50mg per day
Weeks 15-18 Tamoxifen 40/40/20/20mg per day

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is this your first cycle? if yes thats a lot of test so make sure you do bloodwork and check your estrogen. depends on the person, some have high estrogen on 300mg per week and some normal on 1gram per week. but do check it, because if estrogen gets too high you wont like this cycle. pct look good although you wont need to pct so much or long after this basic cycle. you should bounce back easily and then continue with some more serious AAS for better results

Few days late to the party.
Just to add on your shopping list. Get some Arimidex. As Godzilla said just incase you run into oestrogen related sides.
400-600mg is fine. If you can't get your hands on Adex or an AI of any sort then you will just need to slash your test dosage from 600mg to 300mg.
But yeah. Just trying to save you from those nasty bitch tits!

This is also why I'd recommend Mast with beginner stacks since it inhibits some of the conversion. I never needed an AI until September 2017 / my current cycle since I must have gotten very minor gyno from all the previous cycles I ran with no AI or something.

Awesome, thanks for the feedback Van and Godzilla. I went and got my blood-work done a week or so ago and found my Free Test to be sitting at 480. Although I noticed they didn't test for Estrogen for some reason. May have to go back for a follow-up after your feedback.

I initially had only been looking at a 500mg week, but I noticed the Test E on the UK store (from what I understand is the only place stealth shipping to Australia?) is only dosed at 300mg. Would you guys suggest dialling back the 600mg week to 500mg by only pinning .8ml each dose (if Estrogen is in check)? I also saw you mention 300mg per week if estrogen is high - will this still bring some killer results?

And this may sound naive; as I know one is a SERM and one an AI - but I've heard mixed reviews of tamoxifen and arimidex on the same cycle. Are there any drawbacks?

Sorry for all the questions, just keen to learn! Thanks guys.

for sure after a month go test your total, free testosterone and estrogen. some guys can do 1gram and not have any conversion and some half ml and have plenty. in general on 2-300 per week most are fine without any sides, and going up to 600 is for sure possible just keep the sides at bay and this is best done with a quick bloodpanel and you can gauge how high your total and free test is going up with a chosen dosage. take the guesswork out of it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Renegade77

And this may sound naive; as I know one is a SERM and one an AI - but I've heard mixed reviews of tamoxifen and arimidex on the same cycle. Are there any drawbacks?

Sorry for all the questions, just keen to learn! Thanks guys.

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No worries mate. I just don't like people giving not giving useful advice I.E. "You don't even know how to use your AI or SERMS, gtfo you shouldn't be cycling" those sorts of comments.
Its good you asked before you do it wrong etc anyways.

At the same time its counter productive yes. The reason why people want to run no AI etc is obviously you're pumping in alot of drugs into your body... You can look at it like this: You start getting side effects classic counter measure is reduce / stop taking it. Modern counter measure... better use more drugs to counter side effects of other drugs. Not an exactly healthy approach if you look at it like that.
What those mixed reviews are about is the ones who are using them both at the same time for PCT or whatever. (Adex isn't near as effective for pct as other drugs)

Now just so you don't get it wrong.
Your SERM: Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) you use at 2-3 weeks after your final injection date. To start with your post cycle therapy. You should not use this during your cycle at all.
Your AI: Arimidex, you use if you start noticing high oestrogen sides IE. bloated/water filled face or body. puffy/itchy nipples. low/no libido. etc... If you can cycle a full 12 weeks without the AI then consider yourself a lucky man.
Oh... and of course don't leave it until you start feeling literally a lump under/behind your nipple as thats the very first step of actually getting gyno meaning you'd probably have to use an AI every time you cycle. (My personal experience and mistake)

Anyhow now thats clear. I don't wanna spoonfeed you too much as you should be doing your own research on this too (not saying you haven't) find out when and how to use your AI with appropriate dosages etc.

Also DW about your dosages. My last two cycles with MTS is literally CC/ML based rather than MG based so I had different numbers as well for example 800mg test rather than 750mg or 1g. 100mg more than the recommended beginner cycle is fine at your stats IMO.

Thanks for the responses guys, after hours of my own research and your input things are feeling a fair bit clearer. I’ll continue with more readings around the net, but this has been really useful. I appreciate the help!